Where can I read the differences BBQ vs plain Siduction ?

[Potatohead]

Mr Potatohead wants to know it all, I'm sure it is somewhere - what are the differences? BBQ uses Siductions kernels right? I can see these differences:

1. systemd on some versions
2. the packed applications?
3. themes?

Any more? Thanks

[rhowaldt]

^ that, basically. plus, BBQ is going to switch over to its own kernels in the future.

[Potatohead]

OK, thank you Rhowald.

What would be the fastest way to get this:
- login screen like #!
- 2 sessions: OpenBox exactly like #!; and some "goofy" WM (I'm thinking
GOOMWWM right now :-)
- 64 bit, towo kernel, sid

*I could start with #!,
* or with siduction (I put a version on my laptop this afternoon, feels really snappy but the default artwork is severely lacking)
* Or with BBQ (maybe "mother" or Saltimbocca)

....thoughts?

[machinebacon]

^ I would take #! and change the sources. Follow my guide for a transition. http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=16353 No warranty here.

Thing is that usually people here do not want to make something that is already existing (as it in exactly the opposite point of Roast Your Own)

If you wait a few days, I will make a 64bit of Trollinger (the LXDE version) that comes closest to what you want:
- Openbox session
- fucking responsive
- login manager is LightDM but can be switched
- towo kernels are enabled

The real men would take Escargot and build it up (64 bit Openbxo version without login manager)

People without family life would start with Boner (64bit) no-X

By all means, you can get instructions how to build up a system according to your wishes.So, if you want to learn something, take Escargot. If you have a bit of time, wait for Trollinger 64. The configs (porting the #! Openbox menu) is like "one-click" solution

[o.g.]

Hello

Diificult to mix all this distributions. Perhaps you can study crunchbang config (for openbox it should not be too difficult) to adapt to your own roast.
Take a look also around Semplice another sid-openbox-light distribution which has his own alab dynamical openbox menu.

O.g.

[o.g.]

If you wait a few days, I will make a 64bit of Trollinger (the LXDE version) that comes closest to what you want:
- fucking responsive
- login manager is LightDM but can be switched
- towo kernels are enabled

Great ! A question : How do you improve responsiveness and how
to do make lighter an xfce4/openbox dist with respect to the
others (yours or another sid-based) ?

About openbox menu of #!, what's the difference with alan/semplice ?


O.G

[machinebacon]

Alan is an auto-populating menu, where the standard OB menu is static. But it is everybody's own decision which tools to run on top of a kernel plus X plus Openbox.
To increase responsiveness it depends which part of it you mean. Certain gtk engines are rendered quicker than others (Mist is a quick one, Clearlooks is a tad slower). I don't find Openbox unresponsive in general, also XFCE4 is very much there as it should be. As for lightness (ISO size, RAM usage) there are many tweaks to go through. The most important one is to find a subset of applications that mostly depend on each other and not on additional packages that are 'one-way streets' in terms of dependency.
On a perfectly set up minimal system, every further application you install "should" pull in a load of new packages. This means the base system has not many dependecies that are only used by a single app. Sounds strange but is right:
If you install a certain app in a certain distro, it will maybe not pull in any dependencies, because they are already on the system, used by some application. If a basic application, say, Terminator, is not yet installed and apt-get installing it would pull in 3 MB of new packages, it means that these dependencies will (for that moment) only be used for terminator. So much about disk space lightness.
RAM usage tweaking is only interesting on PCs with low RAM availability. If not necessary, simply let the system decide how much RAM to use.
Then there is an own paragraph on services; this depends if you use systemd or sysvinit, and how you enable them, or don't even pull them in.

[machinebacon]

Mr Potatohead wants to know it all, I'm sure it is somewhere - what are the differences? BBQ uses Siductions kernels right? I can see these differences:

1. systemd on some versions
2. the packed applications?
3. themes?

Any more? Thanks

You *can* use siduction's kernels, I have just decided to take them as base for the past releases because it worked well *for me*, but I'm not married to them, and we already switched to BBQ kernels for one release (as testing base) and liquorix (as alternative). There's a script called smxi that can do these things for you.
The packaged applications are different, but we have our own repos (which I should finally populate!) to host the BBQ tools and the relevant unmaintained packages (Skype in both 2.2 and 4.0, the newest mousepad, GIMP 2.9, Inkscape 2.7, etc) Themes will be pulled in through the repos too (in forms of an artwork-<season> package, for example bbq-artwork-spring13)
There are more differences between siduction and BBQ than similarities.

[dura]

Thank you for more insights into the wonderful world of light system theory Mr. Bacon.

A simple right click in Escargot or something, Mr.Potatohead, identifies some initial differences- the BBQ tools which are a wonderful and thoughtful addition. I'm sure there is countless more. Importantly, I think, is the strong 'Roast Your Own' philosophy that the BBQ is showing. For me, this suggests as Bacon says elsewhere it is not yet a distro- because your own unique contribution makes it into what it is. A strong attentiveness to learning and the user not as idiot (ok, some of us...) but as creative maker.

I can't speak for the BBQ- just my own experience. But BBQ is also very new. I see the scripts and the pull in/create/self development/lightness a uniqueness to it.

Mr. Bacon, sir, when will the bbq kernels be out proper? Very exciting! The current Siducton 3.7.1 kernel has all powertop options as 'Good' when on battery for my x121e. I would love to see stuff like this, and whatever other power, lightness, bootup (ok, not really that important), What optimizations do you have in mind or are in the current BBQ kernel on whichever release comes with it?

Cheers buddy.

[Potatohead]

Thanks all, experts! Yes I do have a family life. And a job.But i am also a tinkerer. Ready made stuff its by definition garbage, because other people got it wrong, usually ;-) And on the Web, my friends say the same! Ok, ok, I'll roast, dammit!

[machinebacon]

@dura:
In brief, they will be "rt" kernels and stripped of some things that are not important for the desktop/laptop end-user. You can already test the 64-bit version with "Rocks!" though I haven't compared it in detail.
Most importantly, the BBQ kernels will stay comparably stable, so you won't get new revisions but slightly "older" ones (~2-5 revisions back) and/or even a "stable" versioning (things look good for the 3.6.10 version) It's not top priority, as both towo and liquorix are mighty fine kernels, though I like to have the possibility to squeeze out a bit more on one hand (by disabling stuff like debugging), and add the rt/preemption stuff on the other (which seems to be a default setting for the siduction kernels, but I'm not sure about it).

@pot-head:
Start with a base that has X already there (so not Boner/Virgin) and as next install lightdm or slim (as used in other distros). Systemd should take care of mounting stuff, policykit is tweaked. Then get the openbox-configs (for example cb-scripts, cb-config, I don't really remember the specific name) from the repositories pool of the other distro (google search "name of distro + repository OR packages"), download the files with wget -c http://link-to/package.deb, unpack it with sudo dpkg -i package.deb and you're there. ETA 25 minutes

[rhowaldt]

People without family life would start with Boner (64bit) no-X

exactly!

@potatohead: 2 days ago i installed the Boner on a separate partition, then went on to install the xserver followed by Openbox, Conky and Tint2. migrated my old configs over from my other partition (but you could start fresh of course).
only differences with your setup are that i don't use a login manager, and i only have Openbox, nothing else. however, as bacon said, it is quite simply to just install LightDM and have multiple desktop sessions optional. in fact, i'd say that if you got as far as working yourself from the Boner base up to X, it isn't that hard to go the extra mile and add that second WM.

as far as bacon's big dependency-story goes: you can also read here: http://linuxbbq.org/wiki/index.php?title=Bloat and here: http://linuxbbq.org/wiki/index.php?title=Dependency
:) - yes it says essentially the same :D

[Potatohead]

OK guys, thanks. The next week I have other work to do, after that I have time to play again :-)

[o.g.]

Hy

@machinebacon: Thanks for your explanations. Today I
have siduction-xfce on a desktop computer, semplice on a my old laptop
and my new laptop is waiting for a sid based dist. Due to the real world
boner is not a solution for me, but an X/lightdm/openbox(and/or)xfce4
bbq base should be. After I install machinemath needs : texlive2012, emacs+auctex, evince, okular, vim, mutt, web browser, Libreoffice (the real world) and other bloats like terminator :)
Awesome wm is also on my 2013 task lists.

O.G.

[rhowaldt]

@og: one thing is for certain: you do not need Terminator. you can easily go with xterm or urxvt (xrvt-unicode) instead, both of which are (correct me if i'm wrong) lighter.

for all the Tex-stuff you might want to take a look at the Latex release: http://linuxbbq.org/releases/Latex/linu ... enotes.txt
it is currently unmaintained but that is because it will be merged with Stud into Studex.

good luck, enjoy the BBQ!

[o.g.]

@rhowaldt. Thanks. For Terminator, yes I know that it has mutliple features and it is not the lightest (urxvt supports tabs). But I need also some extra stuff (guake also) like extra roasts.
For TeX-stuff, I saw the latex bbq edition but I have more that 12 years of emacs+auctex experience so that I cannot change to texmaker, lyx or geany (special consideration for vim+atp-vim).
It seems that epdfview does not support synctex (evince/okular do)
and synctex backward/forward synchronisation (with emacs or vim+atp-vim) is crucial
for every day of math typesetting.
A synctex- patched version of zathura is also available
https://github.com/rschatz/zathura-synctex

O.G.

[rhowaldt]

^ ok, very much made clear here that you know what you are doing :)

[simgin]

wow O.G. maybe you should be a consultant for the "study roast" :)

[machinebacon]

If the students would want to learn emacs ;)

[o.g.]

wow O.G. maybe you should be a consultant for the "study roast" :)

It's due to my job (math, university) and I like Linux, Debian with all the configurations problems, all the different tools... Not sure that my choices are the best (emacs), a lot of colleagues use texmaker, kile or texworks which allow you to concentrate on one problem "learn LaTeX" and avoid to loose time :)

If the students would want to learn emacs ;)

Perhaps they can learn (with me) vim + atp-vim :)


O.G.