The !d!otEvilmasterplan (would try roast suggestion welcome)

[!d!ot]

Ok this thread would survive for a lot of time, i hope for first that in the end have luck and learn a lot.
For me and for my ignorance wouldn't be a walk in the park, in spare time i'm reading all i can from our wiki, and here and there to understand some things before start.
But as im' !d!ot, a lot of things are a bit out of my reach, and to complete the Evil master Plan, (for friends Olmo), i for sure need hints, suggestion, correction, be pointed to obivious error i would do, and i thank you now for any help i will receive, and a nation you want when i own the world of course.. (bwahahah).

Ok let's start.
1) what i want achieve; a roast my own with few things in it (eheheh)

a)Base Amd64 (as written in another post have a reason in the better result (in terms of time) for one of my hobby, gigapano's (more ram managed, fast time in result), so as machinebacon, already decide that there's will be no more 64bit release if not for right motivation, and a a user itch that wanna roast is not a so good motivatiom, i've to start or with Bloat or trollinger (the base for my enough!)...

But here there's a question.. i like the kernel for the enough! (liquorix) seems to work very nicely, would someone point me to instruction how to correctly switch from a kernel to another, is this https://wiki.debian.org/HowToUpgradeKernel the correct thing? or there' some suggestion?

b)DE/WM ok there's the idiot part... cinnamon (machine stop laugh, please :D), as on debian repository the 2.0x is not present i suppose i have to walk into a total unknown land for me git... i found this tut.. http://randrianiriana.wordpress.com/201 ... -with-git/ i suppose ive to change the git place.. to the one that have cinnamon 2.0...
for this that's critical, any suggestion, example, be pointed to some tutorial (for dummy) is truly welcome.

c)various packages, for lan ceni, i've no wireless, so no problem there, i for sure i've to install nvidia prop, but i'm dubious, latest Nouveau seems to work pretty well, maybe some suggestion on which terminal,or useful application u use everyday would be nice to know, i know what i would use everyday like rawtherapee, lightzone, hugin, so on but on CLI apps and so on i'm pretty ignorant, so any helpful suggestion...

[machinebacon]

Hello,
so this is the advice from the devil himself:
- take "Bass" as base and upgrade it right after installation
- the Liquorix sources should actually be there, in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/liquorix.list, only need to be uncommented. If not, it is easy to add them.
- you find cinnamon in a working status in the repos, so a simple "sudo apt-get install --yes-install-recommends cinnamon" will pull in all goodness, together with the required gnome3 packages. If you go for git, be prepared that it is quite time-consuming and will need manual upgrades as soon as version changes (and they change regularly in gnome/cinnamon). Really, first try the repo version, it does work as expected.
- the CLI apps are already included in Bass and all newer spins, 50 all in all, from a like abook (addressbook with Mutt intergration) through hnb (hierarchical notebook), through mocp (Music on Console) and MC (file manager) to wordgrinder (a text processor) and sc (spreadsheet). Check the terminal command "bbq" to pop up a dialog-driven CLI menu. Very intuitive.

Hope that helps for now.

[machinebacon]

^ of course I forgot to add: after upgrading Bass you need to install xserver-xorg to have an X server. But you would have noticed anyway.

The good side of the thing is that even without X server you still have a fully productive system, even a console browser and stuff is already there, as base.

[!d!ot]

ook, well a step a time.. i would do a bass installation on a usb hdd, (only when will be all ok i would reinstall all on the hdd where enough actually is).
i see git would be troublesome, i would install the repo version, machine just a question there's no way to use the mint packaging in bbq? as cinnamon 2 exist as ppa, as i read, but will be a later question, i've to start with the first step before.

when i've installed bass and upgraded and installed X and switched kernel, i would think about the second step.
as usual thanks.

[machinebacon]

No way. These things are quite far away from each other - if it would be a single library, no matter. But cinnamon is the third-largest DE (after KDE and GNOME3), even partly depending on GNOME3, so adding a PPA will definitely break the system.
But, we are tracking Sid, so we will get the new Cinnamon soon. I have no info about when, I guess it depends on GNOME3.8 moving to 3.10. Be a bit patient, it is not worth the hassle.
You will have more fun getting from no-X to some kind of X environment. Look, you can for now install what you like except Cinnamon - add a simple WM like Openbox and a panel like tint2 and work inside of this simple environment first. Sid will catch up sooner or later.



About liquorix, see: http://liquorix.net

Follow the three steps in case Liquorix sources are not yet in the base release you chose.
It's easy peasy.

[!d!ot]

crap! i was almost there... (my head is hard like stone i know..)
bass installed updated x installed i tried... cinnamon, following this http://linuxbbq.org/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=246
oh well i tried i lost... get into desktop, but is with nothing.. eheheh, and nothing works...
i come back to my enough! for now, monday i have some thing to ask. about bass, i do something wrong when i install it and i need to understand, when i reinstall it (monday) in order to correct..

[machinebacon]

Why reinstall? You have a working base and added cinnamon. You haven't added a window manager, as session manager, and a login manager, have you?
"nothing works" - "there's nothing"
that's vague. are following items installed:
gnome-control-center (for changing settings and appearance)
gnome-session (for actually managing the session)
muffin (as window manager, you can pick any you like, on Bass there is none, so you have to add one)
optional: lightdm lightdm-gtk-greeter

[!d!ot]

yes for nothing was intended as, there only the desktop, the dm is working, cinnamon seems to work, from another tty i installed the gnome-control-center,and gnome-session, but then i installed mdm, as cinnamon coplain and i broke the installation.
there's no menu, cannot do a cinnamon-settings error and reboot and freeze, in few time. (a minute..) i managed to change the background and install terminator as terminal..before the freeze ....

I will retry, maybe starting with something more *maybe* on my reach before, as a failsafe.
And i do some errors in bass installation, that have to be corrected,(for this reason reinstallation, to start with things done right) eg i've not understood from installation how to have the swap mounted always...i've to re-read the wiki better and with more time,
and if i find some documents. on apt for dummy i would find things i don't kno,..eg i don't know how not allow bugged packages to be installed when i do dist-upgrade, that will allow me just skip those packages. and upgrade others...(this one is valid always..)...in enough i tried doing this with synaptic, but doing dist-upgrade with synaptic is suicidal, simply synaptic destroyed X,removed openbox, get out of mind and insulted me before running away with a bottle of vodka.
So, for this week... a pause for the masterplan, i want is to make my enough fully working and get the rid of some small breakage i've got after re-installation... u would open another small thread for that when i catch from the logs the error.

[machinebacon]

Questions:
What is MDM?
Did you use a PPA to add stuff?
Which window manager are you using?

Cinnamon is not the first choice in Sid, guess why I didn't remix it for more than 9 months...

[machinebacon]

About swap: create a separate partition before the installer, but seriously: swap is outdated. If you have more than 1GB RAM, it doesn't make much sense if you run LXDE/XFCE/some WM, and 2GB if you want GNOME/Cinnamon/KDE

You can always add a swap partition or swapfile later. If you finished installing, ask again ;)

[rhowaldt]

about everything you are doing here: Y U NO Keep It Simple Stevie Idiot Nicks? (KISSIN' - sexy)
really, like bacon said before, if you are new to this, why not just set up X with something simple like Openbox? Now you try to set up Cinnamon with all the additional GNOME-crap, which is way more stuff to consider than just simple simplicity.

if you want to learn to build a house, don't start with a fucking villa, start small.

just my 2 rupee, shrugz.

[!d!ot]

rhowaldt my nick would give you a suggestion of why i sometimes do things really "smart", or is because i've a masochist tendence to try and watch what happen, fail and retry... (and i admit i find cinnamon damn nice.. and sexy)..... you are perfectly right, i've to keep the things kiss.. for that i'm trying to make enough! stright.. (and i assure u dist upgrade is giving me a bit of trouble.)
I thinked i'm not soo new.. i managed to have up and running some distro, arch,aptosid, so i feel ready to try, obiviously not :D
as stated even by me i would fligh down for a while mantaining one bbq for everyday, use and a spare disk i've on a usb for idiotic experiment from time to time...

bacon.,

Questions:
What is MDM?
Did you use a PPA to add stuff?
Which window manager are you using?

mdm is present in a repo searching here and there (a mint pack), and have to be te wm for cinnamon..
by now i've cleaned that mess. and is without any wm-de again clean and polished.

i would take it updated and clean and learning more about apt... and so on..
then i would install something.. or xfce or openbox...


ppst..

if someone have time would be so nice to reply to this? i found almost nothing if not on synaptic..

on apt for dummy i would find things i don't kno,..eg i don't know how not allow bugged packages to be installed when i do dist-upgrade, that will allow me just skip those packages. and upgrade others...(this one is valid always..)...in enough i tried doing this with synaptic, but doing dist-upgrade with synaptic is suicidal, simply synaptic destroyed X,removed openbox, get out of mind and insulted me before running away with a bottle of vodka.

[machinebacon]

Dear Sir,
MDM is surely not a window manager, but a display/login manager. It is not in the Debian/BBQ repositories, so you must have added it from somewhere else. I think we have a point of misunderstanding.

1) /etc/apt/sources.list.d/bbq.list is the only supported sources list, other entries are not valid here and we can't support it
2) adding .deb's from "here and there" will get no support here, do never add Mint's or ubuntu's packages (also called PPA) because they are not compatible with Sid and will break, 100% guarantee.
3) put the buggy packages you don't want to upgrade on 'hold': http://linuxbbq.org/wiki/index.php?titl ... .2Frelease
4) usually bugs marked severe or grave should be skipped or dist-upgrade should be delayed.
5) always check our Upgrade Warnings section

[machinebacon]

Look, I make it super easy for you ;)
- install a base
- if the base is no-X: sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg xinit dbus-x11
- sudo apt-get install openbox openbox-themes tint2 conky pcmanfm lxterminal hsetroot suckless-tools volumeicon-alsa leafpad
- create an ~/.xinitrc file with the content:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh

# disable screen blanking
xset s off &
xset -dpms &

xrdb -merge ~./Xresources
# set keymap to 'us', change it to fr, de, it, es - depedsing on your country
setxkbmap us &
hsetroot -fill ~/your_wallpaper.jpg &

#definitely start a terminal after logging in
lxterm &
exec dbus-launch --exit-with-session openbox-session

- type 'startx' and edit ~/.config/openbox/autostart (leafpad ~/.config/openbox/autostart ) to add stuff that should be started:

Code: Select all

sleep 2s && tint2 &
sleep 3s && volumeicon &

Happy roasting.

[!d!ot]

Dear Sir,
MDM is surely not a window manager, but a display/login manager. It is not in the Debian/BBQ repositories, so you must have added it from somewhere else. I think we have a point of misunderstanding.

1) /etc/apt/sources.list.d/bbq.list is the only supported sources list, other entries are not valid here and we can't support it
2) adding .deb's from "here and there" will get no support here, do never add Mint's or ubuntu's packages (also called PPA) because they are not compatible with Sid and will break, 100% guarantee.
3) put the buggy packages you don't want to upgrade on 'hold': http://linuxbbq.org/wiki/index.php?titl ... .2Frelease
4) usually bugs marked severe or grave should be skipped or dist-upgrade should be delayed.
5) always check our Upgrade Warnings section

bacon,
yes is a window manager, my error.
Never thinked to ask support for things that are not bbq related, *there are no question in that thred i simply reported what i do. when i tried for fun installing cinnamon the way i found googling, and following another old thread...
after i.ve installed bass, without problem the only question was about swap but u kindly already replied..
{for sure when cinnamon 2 will be on sid repos i would retry as u suggested}
Maybe this thread is on the wrong section of the forum,or better i mixed things that would be better live in 2 different threads, *question about bass like the swap and things about dist-upgrade here and chit chat about my foul trying on the general section..

Sorry i missed that part of the wiki, my bad, thanks a lot.

[ivanovnegro]

@MasterPlan: Really, if you want a full featured Cinnamon desktop you should take Mint and that's it. The BBQ is different here. We want you to make your hands dirty. We try to help whenever we can but sometimes there is a limit.

A quote from our main site:

Why is LinuxBBQ not recommended for me?

We do not say that LinuxBBQ is the best distro under the sun - quite the opposite. It will most probably not fit the average
users needs. There are many, many reasons not to come to BBQ-Land.
1) LinuxBBQ is more or less default Debian Unstable
2) You will probably not have "plug-and-play" out of the box, for example your printer needs to be set up via CUPS (and CUPS
is also not pre-installed) - in our opinion not everybody needs to have all services and daemons ticking in the background. If
you need additional services, you will have to set them up by yourself. Of course the BBQ staff is happy to help you. Think
twice if you want to get your hands *greasy*.
3) You have to edit configuration files to make things look like you want them and you will need to spend countless hours
customizing the look & feel. Believe us, you will probably want to go back to the "fast-food" distros, and enjoy the defaults there.
4) The BBQ philosophy is: provide the meat, let the user season. So, you will have to download your favourite applications. They
are partly coming from experimental sources and carry much higher version numbers than what you find in Debian Stable. If you don't
want to run the newest GIMP, Inkscape, Iceweasel browser or WINE, look somewhere else.

[!d!ot]

Ivano as i want run the newest GIMP, Inkscape, and other, and some not even in repos, and i think i'm not in the wrong place.
If i'm wrong just let me know why.

No one learn in few day, is a matter of patience, and time. and as i'm get my hand dirt almost for 3 hours a night, retry doing thing right, failing and reinstalling,and retrying, and is not a problem, when i will get it to work, (and i'm talking about one just one of the 3 iso i've downloaded, bass, or enough or pompous) i simply will be happy to have learned something new, and i will restart, trying to do something else with my bbq..

So i don't see why would be not for me bbq, i could not be the smartest tool in the box, but for sure i'm not one that give up.

By now i asked few things and i only not read about how to hold a package, (wrong googling), if u watch here and in my other thread i searched before ask and asked if was correct on what i've found.
Or i ask after i tried to do something, maybe in the wrong way but tried.

I have not asked for someone do things for me, i never would. so please let me know which limit i have passed, and be kind point me where, here and into the other thread i've done here.

If i wanted mint i have burned, and installed.
I've not your opinion about cinnamon, here there's almost every de/wm in the whole planet,some i never heard before, so cinnamon make no difference i suppose,(when will reach sid and be usable...).

I do the mistake do not split this thread in 2 parts one for things i don't know about bass as base, and a part in general discussion, reporting a funny and absourd try to install cinnamon by myself mixing things, i've already written this and apologized for this, as get who read confused, and generate misunderstandig.

[machinebacon]

^ I'm sure Ivanov doesn't want to kick you out ;) It's more about "everybody is responsible for what he breaks for himself" :)

Look, I just wanted to tell you that mixing a PPA from Ubuntu on a Debian base does not work. And mixing a Mint package on Debian sid will also not work. Of course it does work as in 'the package is added to the system', but you will have serious problems when you do upgrades and certain packages cause dependency issues. That's why I mentioned it, that even if you get something to work on a Sid/BBQ base, by adding foreign debs you will have an 'unclean' system and we won't be able to fix it. In other words, you are wasting your time if you 'add .deb packages I found here and there'. If you would have built from source (git, for example), you would have wasted even more time: Cinnamon is a damned huge project, and it requires a certain version of gtk3 and gnome-dependencies to work. If sid doesn't add new Cinnamon to their repos, there is a good reason for it: GNOME has been a minefield for years.

And that is also the reason why GNOME3 and Cinnamon are not steady projects at the BBQ. In Sid, both GNOME and Cinnamon lag behind and GNOME has caused major butt-ache for Debian-based distros, especially for those that track testing or unstable. I don't want to brainwash you, just speaking of my own experience (and also mirroring what other users with many years of Debian experience reported) -- GNOME's third version is a PITA, and Debian is once again "riding on two horses" (as with systemd). If you want GNOME or Cinnamon in its newest version, I would rather go to Arch-based distros than building this shit on a Debian base. My opinion, I might be utterly wrong, but experience has proven me that I'm right. It would only make sense in Debian if they'd do a delta-package model like in SolusOS, separating GNOME-based desktop's development from the main tree. Heck, Debian does not even add MATE to their repos - not even in stable!

If you ask me: try to live without Gnome3-dependencies and discover the beauty of unknown/obscure/forgotten Window Managers and applications. There are several thousand packages in the repos that are widely ignored because users "want XFCE with an office suite and Iceweasel, and add GIMP on top" -- these people have never heard of working with LaTeX, surfing the net with xxxterm, and manipulating their images with imagemagick from the command line, and they surely miss the greatest pieces of software ever written (just examples, but you get my idea, I hope).

As the German's say: Mund abputzen, weitermachen.

[!d!ot]

i'm sure that he don't want kick me off, and i don't mean to be rude, my english not help me out using the right "tone" (and i assure u google translator do the job worse than me :)), but for sure i don't wanna pass as kidx, so i became a bit "rigid" replying.
I understood what u write, and i will sit on openbox/xfce,(i get perplexed about some wm, but taste are taste)..
I've plenty to learn on those two..as xfce seems to be more easy to mod and have a nice documentation, (im having fun in windows decoration, and icons)...when i've done something nice if u like it will be at bbq disposal.

For "unused" packages
eheh well imagemagick from shell no, but a bit of dcraw yes, and is nice and fast.. not talking about a bit of nona gui (i'm all on that)..
or as i love lighzone that seems to not exist for anyone is in no repos at all or i never see it, only an AUR and packages from Suse.. but is good really, even more than a lot of other image processor..

well here is really late.. and on 3 hours i have to be at work.. argh..
Good night.

[machinebacon]

Good night, and be assured, he doesn't want to kick you out. Else he would have done it already ;)