Ubuntu Phone, Sailfish, FirefoxOS - why not combine?

[Potatohead]

** I could not delete my original thread, which was about Li*nel R*chie, I turned this thread into a real topic **

As a linux and OS at large lover, I welcome new phone OSes. But I doubt that all 3 new, linux-like OSes can succeed.

I understand Jolla/Sailfish. They have their own hardware. But Ubuntu Phone? Firrfox OS? If these guys would cooperate, they would have a chance as a niche OS besides Android. And if that doesn't work out, Ubuntu had better released their OS as a launcher or skin in Android, or as a custom XDA Rom.....

Thoughts? Ps, machinebacons comment was on my original li*nel r**** thread, sorry machine....

[machinebacon]

Tanita Tikaram :D

[ivanovnegro]

As a dumb phone user I care even less about the mobile OSs than I care about to make Linux popular.

[simgin]

I agree with you Potatoehead, it's like they are spreading buckshots instead of using a sniper rifle, they will miss their target overall, but hit one or two curious people. Waste of money , not doing a joint job...

The overall question is : What does Linux want to be?

Many opinions on that :)
nonetheless, an interesting question!


SImgin

[dura]

Seems you have forgotten that linux is not just one individual unit. The 3 different organizations that you mention are really competitors- they are corporate businesses and though it may be in their interest to combine at times, are also trying to make some money out of it. They don't care what linux wants to be. Linux is a kernel. They are using it.

[machinebacon]

Agree with dura.

Canonical has invested a huge bunch of money into Unity and Ubuntu and the whole infrastructure, and now we also know what Unity is/was supposed to be. I am honestly quite excited about Ubuntu for Phones and this doesn't really happen often. Competition is good and important, it helps improvement on both sides and the user (usually) benefits from it.

Let's give it a fair chance and assessment when it's available.

[dura]

Yeah, I'd like an ubuntu phone. Sounds cool. I watched a vid a few months ago about them and they were running libreoffice from it, on an external screen, and using it like a laptoppy thingy. I think they even had a little keyboard for it. Pretty cool. As if firefox and ubuntu are ever going to work together; both are bloated corporations!

[machinebacon]

Yes, I remember those vids, though I am not sure if it is the same like the Ubuntu for Phones thing.
http://youtu.be/cpWHJDLsqTU?t=6m38s

[dura]

His justiculation is amazing. Hypnotizing.

[simgin]

I'm just wandering why that no one is really addressing "to get basics right" first, more stable systems, apps making full use of multiple processors etc.

It's like wanting to go to the moon, but only a rowing boat is available
(abstract metaphor I know ) ;)

Just some of my thoughts :)

[machinebacon]

Money might be a reason :) But all things need time to mature and to be honest, I don't think that Android has already reached its full potential. If there was an alternative I would replace it on my tab. :D

[Potatohead]

Yes, Linux is what you want it to be. The fact that it is a snake with 100 heads, or rather a bucket full of snakes, is exactly what saved it from being destroyed by the large anticompetetive organisations AND what made it so damn good.

But the other side is a large waste of energy (yes I'll get to the phones in a minute). Every distro is writing and maintaining wikis, handbooks, forums, repos, packagemanagers, kernels and so on. Some of that energy could be put in more productive things, such as making the OS or the applications even better..... Suppose we had a meta-wiki, with many general parts plus specific parts for each distro.....

Anyway, back to phones. Jolla are basically hardware (ex-Nokia) guys who worked hard to get a decent, more open than Android, Linux-based OS. Hardware guys looking for software.

At the other side, we have Ubuntu: software guys looking for hardware. Neither Ubuntu nor Jolla are strong companies, compared to Samsung or Apple. And the competition is fierce....

Well, in the desktop space, I am puzzled by Google's Chrome OS. I mean, WTF? There are thousands of linux distros to choose from, who needs Chrome OS?

[machinebacon]

Oh that Chrome OS is nothing else than a BBQ :D Basically, all desktop Linuxen are, but they don't want to admit it :D

[simgin]

Thats one thing that always has puzzled me, I'm relatively new to Linux tbh :) 3 years , is the packagemanagement system. People are pro apt , rpm etc, why not settle for one manager ? Add all of each type of manager into one program. Remove what they aren't good at and focus on the strengths. It would be to everyones benefit. Then the argument comes, what about all the old packages, well convert them, if everyone is working on same project it will not be an issue :)

another thought, I have many :D :p

[Potatohead]

@simginBBQ
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png

I agree that specifically there is overlap in the .deb and .rpm package SYSTEMS. I mean, .deb and .rpm are basically the same - a tarball that contains the program binary plus instructions where to install what and what dependencies are needed (if I am correct).

I do see the need for different package MANAGERS. Some people prefer console driven, others like a nice GUI, some like fine controle, others prefer to do every automagically.

[simgin]

Ahh my bad, I didn't mean Managers, cause ofc people have their preferences, I meant to write the "package systems" I completely agree :)

Thx for the link

[rhowaldt]

@simgin: by that logic you might just ask 'why dont Arch and Debian and Mint and Fedora and Gentoo and Slackware and BSD all go work together and make one super-mega-distro?'
well, simply because of different people with different ideas of how to do things and such. :)

[simgin]

Yes I know rhowaldt :) oh I know hehe, I'll take that discussion another day :p hehe

But, package systems are like the labeling of a cereal box , why not use more power/unity to focus on a nice solid box than making a different variety with the same context?

What is done here(BBQ) is correct, the DE's WM's are just different goggles you / we have on, but to see the same context, why can't this apply to package systems? It sounds a bit contradictory, but I have a hard time formulating this :) DE's, WM's are tools/ eyes but we all need a solid table to work on.

Hope that metaphor explains better :)

[dura]

Because people want different things, there is always a history inviting new lines of flight, and pushing people in new directions, some people just don't get along with each other, some people like to sit in the cupboard, because the world is not made up of similarities all together, but also similarities that are multiplicities, because people try this, and then that, and then that, and they find they have created something new and can't be bothered joining up with others, because linux people also want their own distinct territories, they don't all want to huddle up in the bath to hug each other, because it would be a lot of work to join everything up, and because that ideal might not work, because communes were ruined in the early 70s, because, because... Why don't we all just swallow each other and become one big person? Why do we keep on multiplying and life keeps extending- because that is the nature of life. Creative evolution; continuity without separation.

If everything joined up, would it be the same, or would you be asking the same question? We are all linux. Are we not all the same, but also different? The lines of divisions become more and more minute and precise. We are all linux.

Interesting discussion though.

[machinebacon]

The infrastucture, mostly, is what is the problem IMO. If an organization decides on a certain system, it is very hard or complicated to change it. There's an excellent example for it in Linuxland: SolusOS

It is originally a Debian Stable release which will use Gnome 3 in their next release that should actually run on Debian Wheezy/Testing. AFAIK Ikey (the developer) had a hard time keeping his repositories free from upstream changes that were submitted to Gnome3, and he has started to patch his own Gnome3 already. What he did was to make delta packages, fork the existing Debian repository and send it on his own server, and repackage these as PiSi packages. PiSi is the package manager used in Pardus Linux (which is now not really maintained anymore).

Nice? :)