2 Gentoo or not to Gentoo ... that is my question ? :)

[bizcuit]

This is like the 3rd time playing with Arch but never really gave it a chance, a few dys here, a couple wks there don't think is enough to form an opinion of it. Am afraid Machine's right and there won't be much of any substantial performance difference. Still not quite sure why even bothering, haven't set up Xorg to work, installed a damn display manager or enabled all the crap I'll need in systemd to start at boot. Let alone whatever other configs that will be needed to make the install up to snuff. So looking at at least another hour or two or three. :D

Also again thanks to Wux and Rust Collector for reminding me Arch has a rep of breaking here and there. So have to tar a dang backup to a recovery partition before I install much more onto the thing. So if/when it breaks don't have to go through nearly as much butt pains to get it back in a (somewhat)usable state more quickly, if have to resort to that. Arghhhh !

Hmmmm ... perhaps I like buttpain and time dumps but never really gave Arch a chance, didn't use the AUR. Says packages for the distro are optimized for i686 and x86_64. So guess will just have to chock it up to curiousity. Since as pointed out Gentoo seems to be way too much time intensive to bother screwing with. Screwing with Arch won out by having next best time dump status. :D

Fairly well convinced no distro will ever be able to pry me away from Debian anyway.


UDOD! = Use Debian or Die !!! :P

Edit again ... @Rhow, consider meself to be in a perpetual state of gnu/Linux noobness fellow nixer. Wish I could find a decent paying job that let me do nothing but sit n screw with gnu/Linux all day. Thinking someone could probably spend the rest of their friggin life doing so and would only scratch the dang surface of all the stuff possible to fiddle with. Though I keep checking the help wants diligently, haven't yet come across any such job openings DAMMIT ! Still hopeful though. ;)

[wuxmedia]

^ re linux Job edit - yeah, playing with linux all day is great. Have to recall it is almost always someone else's setup, and one doesn't get all that much time / incentive to work on one's own system. Respect to admins who run gentoo/arch even for their prod/work systems.

[bizcuit]

^Duly noted Wux ... am not holding my breath, I also keep looking for well paying jobs along the lines of "mattress tester" = Sleep ya way to fortune and fame and "beer quality assessor" = get paid to get sloppy drunk on free suds ! Arghhhh in a perfect world perhaps. ;)

Still somewhat keep hoping for an ad along the lines of "Wanted, gnu/Linux fiddler, responsibilities include fiddling with gnu/Linux in all it's glory all dy long."


Vll! :)

[wuxmedia]

^ better install gentoo then :)
it did give a former collegue the edge over another colleague who applied for the same job, as the gentoo'er had complied his own kernel, but gentoo isn't required for that.
As no doubt maybe Joe could tell you the further down the rabbit hole on goes, it gets well... more rabbitty

yeah beer tester for a day job then mattress for a night job, not bad!

[bizcuit]

^LMFAO ... what I was thinking too Wux, ya know what they say, twisted minds think alike me friend. :P

Did the kernel compile thing, it worked well enough. Though to be honest not 100% sure I got it and all the modules right. Did learn a bunch in the process though about config options etc. So concluding it was time well spent.

As for this adventure in Arch ... ummmm. Still not really giving it a fair chance. Due to misc headaches involved am starting to get the itch to just overwrite the sucker and call it a day. Everything's working fine. Installed lightdm, openbox, xfce4 this n that blahblahblah. Yep ... do like it well enough overall. Just not sure if will find it to be in any way superior to so many of the other gnu/Nix goodnesses of the world.

So for time being going to resist the itch, dig in, take the time to tweak the install and stick with the original plan of running it for at least a couple more wks. My laziness instincts are very strong though, so it's going to be an ordeal to suppress them for long. :D


Vllbbq!

[bizcuit]

Update: Alright fellows, finally got Arch install up to snuff. Lightdm set to autologin, video/audio working, network wireless automatically kicking in. Can finally start dorking with it for awhile. Here in there who knows how many hours already dumped ... several though. Hoops, hoops n more hoops.

Overall like it I guess. Yeppers ... still always going to be a committed Debian fan, no matter what. Somebody hit the stop watch button, let's see how long it takes me to bork this OS. :D Hmmmm, was thinking about making Pornix Arch based but by the time my fellow pervs got the damn thing config'ed wouldn't have any energy/time left to jack-off.


Vll! :)

[rust collector]

I just wonder... why do you use lightdm, if you set it to autologin anyway?

[bizcuit]

Good question I guess, no good answer. Expedient + easier session switching ? Like many dm's boots the last session default, have openbox too. Probably will install others for heck of it. From past experience, display managers don't really add much overhead regardless. Not overly familiar atm with how to config Arch, so went with the easy button. Lightdm is well .... light and desktop agnostic.

Yep ... liking the OS so far. Works well ... comparable in terms of overhead as others and runs as well too. Still need to tar a backup and standing by waiting for unexpected borkage. In the immortal words of El_karaco "everytime someone resorts to reintalling a gnu/Nix OS to correct an issue, somewhere a kitten bursts into flames". Seriously doubting will come up against anything can't resolve with backup and/or google's help.

So it's official, running Arch ... hmmmmm, not quite as many oooooo's and ahhhhh's as was expecting but meh, good enough. :P


Vll!

babbling afterthought,

also not to come off as aholish ( not meant thataway) but kinda like asking why did x-nixer install xyz-desktop/wm, file-manager or other app/util. Big point behind installing a base system whether Debian netinstall or Arch-etc. A person installs whatever they decide or prefer vs a ready made distro where package selection is made for endusers.

[wuxmedia]

^ Display managers help with laptop suspend and all that. (I use a script with pm-suspend on the acpi something)

[machinebacon]

DM also takes care of authentication and policies if you don't use a designated tool (for example, a Desktop Environment) for it. Although, XFCE4 with pure xinitrc has now a kind of --with-ck-launch switch in startxfce4 that does this partly. Unfortunately it needs consolekit.

[wuxmedia]

^ Yeah, I think you'll find I covered all that, Bacon...

^ ... and all that.

:P

[bizcuit]

^ :D

That's one thing I've yet to ever figure out to date. Autologin w/o a display mananger. Got close once, other than plugdev stopped work ( would've had to mount usb's-etc manually arghhh), everything was fine. Certainly wasn't in the mood to sink more time and hassles attempting it on Arch. Lightdm seems like a good compromise, plus looks like Mb uses it often in bbq releases? Which I consider a positive endorsement of it as a display manager. Da Machine wouldn't use it if it were a piece of crap software.

Hope ya'll have a good day fellows and always, always, always remember. Vll! :)

[rust collector]

ah yes. Thanks people.

And sure, you do what you want, like you should.

[bizcuit]

^No worries fellow nixer.

The sans display manager thing is just a bit too hardcore for me atm. At least the install is up, running and as complete as can be expected. Now to stick to commitment gotta use this OS majority of time for the next couple wks. At which time will feel justified in forming a personal opinion of Arch. So far like it, as did in past, not sure if it's worth the extra headaches/hassles to get config'ed but reserving judgement until such time as I do what I decided I'd do.


Vll! :)

[ivanovnegro]

I just leave it here for fun:

https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/a ... 39443.html

And since when do we use a DM here? :P Recycle that shit Bizzy.

[wuxmedia]

I quite like *not* having a DM.
bizzy, you is outta date buddy, no DM since.. er like a year minimum?

Thing is - I reckon - it's the gateway to really futzing around with linux.
no automount?? good - one learns how to mount shit where you want, not just /media/user/some_random_name/ then one understands how fstab works a lot more.
no suspend on lid down, great - pilfer a script on how to do that with acpi, and... hangon - i can get it to do other stuff - like put the lockscreen on (thanks dkeg) or wipe my browser session, (no more embarrasing tabs open) or whatever.
no battery manager, great, you can get the raw data out of /sys/class/whatever and pipe it to wherever, notifier, bar.. pump it to the internet if you want/can (thanks dkeg).

But yeah - dowhatchalike eh?

[rhowaldt]

@ivo: that was wonderful. great insight into how Arch works, and wonderfully honest. thanks for posting that :)

i haven't used a DM either. i just drop into my tty, login, then X starts with my WM of choice. done.
all the additional shit you can have in there (dbus etc) just for automounting usb? yeah, i remember a time when i wanted that really badly, and sure, it is convenient. however, it is not like it is a huge task to mount it manually, and second, pretty sure you can regulate most of the automouting stuff of at least your regular external drives through simple fstab.

[machinebacon]

I just leave it here for fun:

https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/a ... 39443.html

And since when do we use a DM here? :P Recycle that shit Bizzy.

FInally a logical monologue abut the so-called Arsch Weigh. The minimalist, lightweight distro that never really existed :D

[bizcuit]

Interesting read on Arch, another thanks Sir Ivan.

Makes sense, I joke about starting a distro but have considered doing so and absolutely yes, it would not be a fricken democracy. With perhaps the exception of a highly respected core of nixers in the community. Overall though, nope ... understand distro maintainers not bending over backwards to cater to endusers every want/whim.

Thanks Ivan and Wux ... was out of the loop thought the Lbbq was still using a Dm. Should've known you fellows would go hardcore. Wondering if getting closer to gnu/nix is the reason for getting rid of a dm ? Or if lightdm could be a piece of crap software afterall ? Hope not, dammit if so, I didna get the memo ! For me personally am too lazy, would rather just leave a dm in place. Don't mind the added bloat or overhead as long as it isn't extreme and is for some practical purpose. Plus am sorta crap when it comes to using scripts. Haven't spent much time dorking w the subject. Run w an @boot crontab ?

Arch w xfce uses slightly less RAM than a Jessie netinstall w xfce (bout 160mbs vs 186-7mbs), at least at first then it seems to even out as the OS's are run. Apps are launched n used etc blahblah. So far impression is, it's a gnu/Nix OS, like all gnu/Nix OS's. Nothing really stands out as noteably better. Do like pacman, still not overly familiar with usage atm.

[ivanovnegro]

Wondering if getting closer to gnu/nix is the reason for getting rid of a dm ? Or if lightdm could be a piece of crap software afterall ?

The reason is simple. Everything is bloat. Not that it is bad software.

Arch w xfce uses slightly less RAM than a Jessie netinstall w xfce (bout 160mbs vs 186-7mbs)...

Then you missed some screenshots from Bacon or Pidsley. Xfce runs under 100 MB, at least on the grill. You cannot go more minimal. ;) Look, no DM running for starters etc. etc.