language

[machinebacon]

Seems that Norse "-lse" suffix is the German "Ge-" prefix to (trans)form nouns from verbs.

fuehlen - to feel -> Gefuehl - feeling
schreien - to scream -> Geschrei - screaming (in this case it's more like some random, indefinite screaming and not the gerund "das Schreien")
ficken - to fuck -> wildes Herumgeficke - wild fucking (same as above, rather neutral, not directed at a certain person, but a situation)

As shown here for Dutch, it seems to fit: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ge-#Dutch

Apparently Dutch and Norse likes to do it from behind. Good dog! :)

Is it the same in Dutch or Norse when you want to change a definite noun to a neutral one, as in German the transformation definite noun to neutral noun? (ignore the article change from der to das)

Berg (a certain mountain) -> Gebirge (a more or less abstract, not exactly definite amount of rocks or mountains)
Stein (a stone) -> Gestein (a geological material like ore, a rock, etc)

[rhowaldt]

cool, that makes sense and is interesting, thanks Jules!

your last example in Dutch works like so:

Berg -> Gebergte
Steen -> Gesteente

so the same, but adding a "te" at the end.

[machinebacon]

smerige kankerhoer says Thank you for the Dutch examples :)

[rhowaldt]

graag gedaan gore tyfuskut!

[rust collector]

berg = some mountain
bergET = A (specific) mountain
et berg = a (non-specific) mountain

stein = stone (the material in general)
en stein = a stone (a non-specific stone)
steinen = a stone (a specific stone)


We usually say fjell, and not berg, but the idea is the same.

[rhowaldt]

cool, i like how the "et" and "en" just changes from in front of the main word to behind the main word. seems to make sense, in some way :)

[machinebacon]

Really cool. In Hungarian it's similar, example - you wouldn't say "I drink the coffee" but "I drink the coffee-et", because the coffee is receiving the action, so it's the direct object, and therefore marked.

Is the -en / -et depending on the consonants before, or on the gender?

[rust collector]

I had to look that up, but it is depending on the gender.
The tricky bit is to figure out which gender the word is.

As an example: en stol (a chair) is male
but: et kjøleskap (a refrigerator) is neuter
also, en kvinne (a woman) is male, which is tricky for many.

Female words get an -a on the end
jakka (the jacket) but it can also be jakken (the jacket) so it is both female, and neuter???

This is not something I am very good at, and there are also differences, depending on which language you use, as we have 2 similar-ish languages. nynorsk (new norwegian) and bokmål (book language) most learn bokmål, and the nynorsk is used pretty much in in the south-western areas.
There are also several dialects, who may or may not use the same "rules".

This is actually pretty hard to explain, for me, as I have never learned it properly, I just use whatever sounds right.

At work, we have a guy from Lithuania, and he was confused. "you write hund (dog) but you say bikkje (dog)"
I guess hund should be translated to hound, and bikkje to mutt or something, but both are dogs.
We are pretty sloppy down here, when it comes to language.

[machinebacon]

^ I totally understand you :) German also comes with 3 genders (because 1 is not enough), and I still don't know how to explain to somebody that a bra is male and a condom is neutral.

At least in German you can remember: everything that ends with -ung, -ion, -in, -en is *usually* female ("die")

[rust collector]

Yes, now that I think about it, in German classes, you have to "just learn" the genders of words.
(or was it the genders??) thare was something you just have to remember.
I guess it is pretty much the same here, really.
(and no, I never took german in school. I had table tennis, and that has helped me a lot later in life... not)

[rhowaldt]

i wouldnt be able to explain that shit in Dutch either. i just do it by feeling, or just because i know the rules by heart. the rules don't make sense. this is also just how it works for any language i think, which is why i've never understood the use of learning grammar: it is imposing rules on a language that has formed organically, and thus doesn't obey rules. this is why there are usually 3 or more different grammatical theories for each language, and schools just say "well, we follow this one". doesn't make sense to me.

[wuxmedia]

Learning genders in French was a bit like that, seemingly as with the other langs you can guess by the ending, otherwise it's feel and learning through repetition.
always got confused when the "le" or "la" got shortened to l'<vowel> when needing to have a noun agree with it.
At least all words for women are feminine AFAIK

Really happy there aren't such troubles in englisch - just different problems. :)

[ivanovnegro]

At least all words for women are feminine AFAIK

In Spanish the vagina is masculine. :) Now you already guess that penis is feminine, correct.

[rhowaldt]

imma just split all this language-talk into our language-thread :D

edit: okay fuck it, too much hassle, can't be bothered. cross-referencing: http://linuxbbq.org/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=538

[ivanovnegro]

Fuck. You were right, it was too much hassle because first I took the wrong thread, language game.
Maybe I messed something up chronologically.

[wuxmedia]

all looks peachy here, actually; condom being neutral makes as much sense as anything else.
Anyway, this links back to my original (in the lang thread) question, which was about err, this masc/fem topic.

so let "beer" be masculine, let "sister" be feminine, is it HER beer or HIS beer in possessive terms? in these various langs we know of. as in french I think it's HIS beer because the possession is determined by the object
(no it's MY beer!)

[rhowaldt]

i think the masculine/feminine in linguistics shouldn't be confused with masculine/feminine in biology. they seem to be two entirely separate things, Dog knows why. and i really don't know the answer to Wux' question, because in Dutch the noun doesn't change depending on the gender so if beer is masculine, it will always stay masculine no matter which gender is drinking it.

i wonder how long it will take linguistic theory to catch up with the genderbending trend. will there be words that originated as masculine then became feminine, and the other way around? perhaps words that look masculine but identify as feminine? at least they had the neutral down before humanity caught up with that concept.

[maso]

jeg taler dansk (men kun begynder-level). dansk er et komisk sprog. There are no consonants really, just glottal stops. I love it, even though it seems to have displaced my German.

If you're sensitive about the gender-specific 'generic' pronoun in English, just alternate. Use "her" sometimes, "him" sometimes. I do that in papers; just choose one and use it consistently throughout. People figure it out.

Sciendum autem quod Latina est optima inter linguas. Any Latinists out there?

[maso]

Danish and the other Scandi tongues of course have that awesome enclytic definite article, e.g. 'skolen' (THE school) vs. indefinite 'en skole' (A school).

[rhowaldt]

^^ i am not sensitive about the gender pronouns, but agree that it makes sense to alternate. another form, arguably more awkward, is the "s/he" thing. i think i prefer alternation.