IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

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wuxmedia
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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by wuxmedia » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:09 am

OMG windows = swastiker :mindblown: LOL
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gutterslob
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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by gutterslob » Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:11 am

^ It's nothing new. In fact it's so old I had a hard time finding that gif.

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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by wuxmedia » Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:20 am

lol
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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by wuxmedia » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:44 am

Ok so I'm looking for a new laptop, for various reasons.
Thinkpad X1 gen 8 = 2000 GBP
Dell XPS 13 (2020) = 2000 GBP

FIGHT!

I don't care how big the SSD is, I am happy on a replacement 120G SSD right now. (20G used)
screen would be nice HD - they both seem to be. I do like the infinity display on the Dell.
Really don't need a fast proc. my 2012 X1 has an i7 (4 core?) and 8G of ram which seems fine on my lightweight install.

Or I could save a buttload of cash and get a 2nd hand one of either :D arrgh
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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by GekkoP » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:01 am

I've been sporting a Dell XPS 13 since 2017 and it's a good machine. I had to replace the battery, though, something that never happened with the previous Dell Inspiron I had, but I guess that's the way with new hardware.

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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by gutterslob » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:56 am

2000 quid?!
That's crazy expensive mate, VAT or not.
... and that's with entry spec SSD and RAM??!!

I did like the 7th Gen X1 Carbon I sampled last year, but ultimately felt I was paying too much (though nowhere near what you're quoting) just for the thinness. Went a step down and got an X390 (now superseded by the X13, I believe) for like ~USD900 with GST/tax (based on exchange rates on the day) plus 3yr battery replacement, 3 yr accidental damage protection and 3yr on-site support (and an ugly backpack) thanks to discounts at the time. Happy so far. With the impending ARM apocalypse, I suspect it might be my last x86 machine (for non-work use), but you never know.

EdiT:
Seriously, if you're willing to spend that kind of money, may as well go with the open source guys. I just specced out a System76 Lemur with 11th Gen quad core i7, 40GB DDR4, 500GB PCIE4 SSD, fast charger and 3yr extended warranty for USD2000 on their website, so around GBP1500 equivalent, so even with 20% VAT added you're still saving a couple hundred over whatever ThinkPad or Dell you're referring to, plus you get coreboot and open source embedded controller firmware. Not sure if you can spec a UK keyboard though.

That's an extreme (meaning still bloody expensive) example. If in UK and want to support local business, check out Star Labs. You can max out their current "LabTop" with an i7, 16GB DDR4 and 480 overprovisioned SSD for around half your budget. No coreboot but they have a great firmware update record on LVFS (fwupd.org).

Seriously, 2000 Brexit Bank Notes on a laptop is just batshit bonkers!!

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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by wuxmedia » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:23 pm

I did think that was a bit much
I clearly didn't look around much. Thanks
I do get a bit bored looking after a while.
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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by ivanovnegro » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:00 pm

The first problem is that all those dev centered or premium business class laptops are expensive that is why I buy them used or refurbished.
You could wait and buy them later or try some older iterations of them. The one Gekko uses should be cheaper by now. But if you go with new and shiny I think both are great machines but I would also tend to go more to the Dell XPS side. It is just a baseless personal preference and also based on the fact that I really love the old school Thinkpads more than anything newer they produce now.

As for System76. People recommend them often but you have to ship them from the US and it makes them even more expensive and of course they do not come with your localized keyboard. Every proper Linux based company produced hardware is overpriced. I get sometimes why but I cannot afford it and consumer hardware is mostly shit.

There is also Entroware from the UK, Tuxedo from Germany etc and they all sell expensive laptops with a basic configuration. If you add one bit you are always above 1000 Euros.

The most affordable would be Slimbook but they also sell them with basic specs and I can get everything used on the net with more power and way way cheaper and I am sure with better build quality.

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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by GekkoP » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:38 pm

My only complaint with the Dell XPS 13, as I wrote above, is that changing the battery after 3 years was a pain for two reasons:

- The cost of the battery (80€ including shipping to get an official one, which is becoming impossible to find apparently)
- The not so easy installation procedure. Every time I touched something I was afraid to break it, but that's just me probably. Nonetheless, this is the first computer I don't feel comfortable dirtying my hands with.

Also, I mainly work with external display, keyboard and mouse, the laptop closed on a vertical stand next to the bigger monitor. A USB-C adapter makes this possible, but switching from the external setup to the laptop and viceversa is a pain even with GNOME: resolution gets mixed up, I have to restart GNOME with Alt+F2+r, but even then I have to reopen some applications.

However, the laptop display is gorgeous, the whole thing is light and very easy to take with you on the go, and overall I wouldn't change this lappy with anything else right now. At least until I can only work from home and I can go with a proper desktop machine and forget about all this travel nonsense.

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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by wuxmedia » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:09 pm

Hmm thanks. Food for thought here.
Yeah. It's still 700 quid for a refurbished gen 3 X1.
The brand new gen 8 X1 has the same ish screen (resolution at least) as the one I have now...
I like to start off in bed (the shame!) Then to the dining table then onto the standing desk for deeper work
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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by gutterslob » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:24 pm

One benefit of ThinkPads (new and old) is that you can set charge thresholds with TLP. Useful if you're plugged in a lot. Set it to start charging at 70% and stop charging at 80% and your battery will last much longer. It's usually the final 15-20% of charging that decays the battery the most. You can also input a command to override the threshold for one cycle if you want to fully charge it and take it out somewhere for example. TLP is also useful for recalibrating the battery every few months.

I know HP laptops have similar features accessible in their BIOS. Not sure about Dell.

My favourite feature of my ThinkPad is that almost all the LEDs are accessible in /sys/class/leds, so you can set triggers and tie them to inputs or scripts. I mucked about with dunst and some bash and now my keyboard backlight flashes every time I get an email notification from Thunderbird. Superficial, but oh so disco!!

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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by GekkoP » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:55 pm

My XPS has a switch at BIOS level to specify whether you plan to use the laptop mostly with the charger or not.

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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by GekkoP » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:17 am

One word against Dell again.

Wife's XPS (9350) battery died, but after we opened the laptop we found one of the screws stripped, basically impossible to remove since it's tiny and jammed. Father-in-law is a bricolage guru, so we'll see what he can do about it later. Still, fuck. Two laptop, two problems, I really won't go with Dell for my next one. (Ten years from now, hopefully)

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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by vic » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:59 am

Personally I would go for the X1, because that is what I do. :D
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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by ivanovnegro » Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:34 am

What Gutterslob says is indeed great about all Thinkpads. I use tlp on all machines and I miss the settings on the Latitude.

As for Gekko's problems with the XPS, that sounds disappointing, especially because if I were to go shiny and new I would have gone with the XPS but now it seems I should stay with older refurbished models that are totally reparable.

My Latitude is easy to open and I switched RAM and battery. The next thing on the list is to put an SSD but I usually never reinstall until the hardware dies, you know me.

My T400 was not that easy with replacing parts.

As for batteries. On my used hardware I do not go with the pricey original brands. I found one that seems to work really fine but now I cannot remember the name.

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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by wuxmedia » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:49 pm

GekkoP wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:17 am
One word against Dell again.

Wife's XPS (9350) battery died, but after we opened the laptop we found one of the screws stripped, basically impossible to remove since it's tiny and jammed. Father-in-law is a bricolage guru, so we'll see what he can do about it later. Still, fuck. Two laptop, two problems, I really won't go with Dell for my next one. (Ten years from now, hopefully)

Factory's fault? That is mad, those screws can be silly small. the X1 is missing quite a few I have to say :D
I took apart my turntable to change the light and phono leads all round and turns out whoever had it before me had made a right mess of it, all wrong screws wires clamped where they are not supposed to be. anyway
fuck i had edited your post rather than quote :D
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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by wuxmedia » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:49 pm

oh I'll have to look at 'tlp' never heard of it, I see it has a repo etc.. ok
a colleague was saying 4k displays are a killer of the battery, he gets like an hour on his machine.
He couldn't answer me about a 2012 X1 being not *that* much 'better' than a mid spec 2020. of course the processor would be quicker.... ram snappier.
an SSD can make a big difference, even on the old Acer I put an SSD on it and it, well, helped a bit :D

Most stuff is made in the same factory and rebranded etc.
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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by vic » Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:49 pm

Did not now about tlp either, interesting.
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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by ivanovnegro » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:07 pm

wuxmedia wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:49 pm
fuck i had edited your post rather than quote :D
I was already wondering. :)

The quote button is in the wrong place here.

And you all never heard about tlp? Wow. Just install it. It is in the Debian repos and in all other repos, too. By default it already works pretty well and you will gain more battery life and it is really noticeable not like the Liquorix kernel. :P Later you can play with it. On my Latitude I did not change anything.

Code: Select all

apt policy tlp
tlp:
  Installiert:           1.3.1-2~bpo10+1
  Installationskandidat: 1.3.1-2~bpo10+1
  Versionstabelle:
 *** 1.3.1-2~bpo10+1 100
        100 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     1.1-2 500
        500 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
The documentation (specifically Debian):

https://linrunner.de/tlp/installation/debian.html

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Re: IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads

Unread post by gutterslob » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:52 pm

Despite recommending tlp earlier, I actually don't use its power saving tools on my current ThinkPad. I find auto-cpufreq more than adequate. Don't even bother with the charge thresholds because I tend to use it unplugged more often and also, as I mentioned earlier, this laptop came with 3yr free battery replacement, so I plan to decimate the battery in order to get my money's worth, because squeezing a big multinational business for all they're worth is the ethical thing to do. I do make use of tlp's battery recalibration tool though.

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