Systemd notice (important)

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Launfal
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by Launfal » Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:27 pm

^ This will be nice. hplip is a monster. Even without recommends it's almost 200megs, and I gotta have it because my printer needs an HP plugin. If they can find a way to let me install that without the rest of that stuff, that can only be a good thing,

I finally found where hplip stuck the ppd file for my printer, so I'm gonna try an experiment by only installing printer-driver-hpcups, sticking the ppd file back in /etc/cups/ppd and see if straight cups can find it. Ooh, and the hp backend that I saw somewhere, too. If that works, that would save me a ton of dependencies.

Edited: added experiment.

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Launfal
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by Launfal » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:23 pm

^ Update: utter failure. Even with avahi-daemon to tell cups where the printer is, it just fails with no error and no output. Maybe if I had a usb cable long enough to reach, it would work.

hplip is just the path of least resistance and the way that has always worked for me.

machinebacon
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by machinebacon » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:35 pm

that sucks :( maybe you want to open a thread in the support section and hope that an angel passes by? in this case, we could move these posts to the appropriate section.
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gutterslob
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by gutterslob » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:41 am

Not sure if this is the right place, but whatever.

Haven't really kept up with the whole systemd migration thing in a while, since my usage of Debian/BBQ has been pretty sparse lately. Did my usual once-a-week DU today, and after careful selection and watering down, I'm left with this;

Code: Select all

The following packages will be REMOVED:
  sysvinit-core
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libpam-systemd systemd systemd-sysv
The following packages will be upgraded:
  policykit-1 udisks2
2 upgraded, 3 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 1,526 kB of archives.
Is it safe to do, or will I be experiencing a world of hurt? Note that policykit-1 and udisks2 were kept back (by apt) for a while (almost a month, iirc) prior to this.

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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by machinebacon » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:12 am

It depends if you want to stay with systemd -- which only needs the init=/bin/systemd entry in GRUB's cfg file. Else, leave it away and it will continue booting to sysV. You probably still have sysvinit as main package (apt-cache policy sysvinit) If yes, simply continue the dist-upgrade.
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gutterslob
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by gutterslob » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:22 am

So, even though sysvinit-core gets removed, I'll still be booting with sysV if I go ahead with the DU?
Note that I do not have any systemd-shim or related package installed. I've just let Debian be for the the last few months, not tweaking anything. This particular rig just serves as torrent box and (sometimes) media streamer. Not bothered about the linux init wars anymore - I'll use whatever, as long as it works. No time for tweaking shit.

Code: Select all

sysvinit:
  Installed: 2.88dsf-53.2
  Candidate: 2.88dsf-53.2
  Version table:
 *** 2.88dsf-53.2 0
        500 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ sid/main i386 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
Last edited by gutterslob on Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

machinebacon
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by machinebacon » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:26 am

Right, it gets the sysvinit-systemd as replacement. But you cna of course first remove systemd if you don't like it, and then keep sysvinit and sysvinit-core. The decision is yours, It will boot anyway (provided you have the right line set or not set in GRUB). Personally, I would remove the systemd and everything that it pulled in (udisks and stuff), and go the old bearded way.
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by machinebacon » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:27 am

Explanation: Debian is again half-ass on the horse, it means you can basically install both systemd and sysvinit side by side, or exclusively. In latter case it removes the -core package, in first case it keeps systemd-sysvinit
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gutterslob
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by gutterslob » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:29 am

Alright. Could you give me a brief how-to on the old bearded way then? I think I'd prefer the clean, non-Poettering path.
Sorry for the noob-ness. As you can tell, I'm not on linux often these days. Thanks

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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by machinebacon » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:33 am

I think the easiest way is:

sudo apt-get autoremove --purge systemd libpam-systemd

it will then also remove all that freedesktop crap like udisks and polkit, IIRC. Anyway, this is the most painless solution.

Also check /etc/default/grub for the init=/bin/systemd and remove it. Save the file, then sudo update-grub. Reboot.
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by machinebacon » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:35 am

Updated the post above, please check.
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gutterslob
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by gutterslob » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:38 am

Much thanks, Baconator. You're a legend!!

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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by machinebacon » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:50 am

Ok, I just did it on one of my systemd partitions, and here I am in sysvinit. No problems after removing and purging systemd...
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gutterslob
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by gutterslob » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:18 am

System seems to boot fine. No error message. I didn't need to change anything in grub - there was no init=systemd related line.

Only problem: I seem to have lost the ability to mount USB drives. :-\

PCmanFM gives me a "GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1 was not provided by any .service files" pop-up.

Might be related to the removal of udisks2 and whatnot (gvfs maybe). Hmm...
Doesn't matter. I'll just mount them manually if I have to.

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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by machinebacon » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:40 am

That's right. I don't know if you use a DM (and what kind of), but usually this is happens if the X session is started without the right policy. In case of no DM, you need to call "exec ck-launch-session dbus-launch --exit-with-session startlxde" for example, and also be sure you start lxpolkit (I guess preferably via /etc/xdg/autostart/lxpolkit.desktop or even better, with some kind of session manager like lxsession, if you use LXDE). Of course this is now very refined and very special and probably not suitable for the upgrade warnings thread (sorry David and the others), so if you want to investigate the problem, these are the keywords. Else, make it easy and install "usbmount" and/or "pmount". For everything else, simply open a new thread in the /usr/share/doc section :)
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gutterslob
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by gutterslob » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:03 am

Yeah, sorry for derailing. Like I said, it's not a big issue since this is a torrent box mainly. I'll just pmount/pumount when I need to.
Thanks again, Baccy.

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ivanovnegro
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by ivanovnegro » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:22 am

No problem, I find it good to see what happens here.

A bit late to the party but Bacon solved it already. As I posted above, the transition is smooth if you go the default Poettering way recommended now by Debian. If you do not want to then Bacon already gave you the solution by removing everything systemd related like policykit-1 etc. Sure that way you lose automounting, again Bacon solved it. But systemd-shim is there to give you just this if you do not use logind. But I would not use it and just do everything myself because I guess systemd-shim is a dead end in the long term.

Edit: policykit-1 was kept back because you had to decide if you install systemd-sysv or systemd-shim, something like this.

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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by gutterslob » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:11 pm

Have to wonder if staying with sysV will lead to situations where apt just wants to remove it in future, in favor of systemd again. I sure hope not, but that's what past experience with Debian leads me to suspect. I guess there weren't enough "I just don't like Lennart" votes back when they were doing the poll among Debian devs. Boo!!

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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by machinebacon » Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:59 am

don't worry bout that. If you remove traces that have systemd elements as dependency (and the recommends turned of in apt) you will stay neckbeareded until Jessie goes oldstable. ;)
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paolo
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Re: Systemd notice (important)

Unread post by paolo » Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:20 pm

[OT] Today in my Antix laptop the dist-upgrade go very fine, I arrived in the land of Systemd :)
Dell Latitude C640 - CPU P4 2GHz - RAM 1,5 GB - made in 2002 - I'm in the Manjaro-i3 land now :)

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